Friday, August 12, 2005

What Creates a Submissive Man?

I think there are many theories as to why men become submissive, but little evidence beyond anecdotal accounts.

I think the standard explanation of men who have great responsibilities at work and merely want to relinquish control to another is pure poppycock. There are many submissive men that do not have high-powered careers, yet still crave loving female authority. Also, there are many very succesful men that are overwhelmed by responsibility, yet have not the slightest notion of taking pleasure from a woman that takes them with a strap-on.

My own husband describes how he was aware of his submission very early in his life, even before he reached the age of puberty. This would tend to support the idea that submission is innate in some men. This may be the case, and the idea that it is the natural evolution of human gender relationships taking shape has incredible appeal to me. However, I have seen nothing that would tend to prove this through empirical data. Maybe it cannot be proven through empirical data.

I welcome your thoughts and would really welcome evidence to support them.

15 comments:

Dirk said...

Katherine,

Lady Misato's wife worship group recently referenced an article concerning male menopause (andropause). Testosterone levels decline during andropause. High testosterone levels are associated with typical male dominant/aggressive behavior. Quite a few of the wife worshipping males in the group are at least forty years old. So, hormonal changes are associated with submissive male behavior. Perhaps this is one factor in what creates a submissive man.

I've copied an on line article for your ease of reference.

Dirk

Born to have a midlife crisis

DR MARK PORTER

NEXT MONTH, I'll be 43, and already I'm showing signs of a midlife crisis. Since turning 40, I've set up a gym at home, employed a personal trainer, bought a Porsche, started riding a motorbike, run a marathon and taken a sabbatical from my medical practice. And I'm not alone.
According to a recent survey by Virgin, half of all 35-64 year olds resort to a personal trainer at some stage. One in four will take a sabbatical from their career to contemplate their future, and up to a third will turn to Botox or plastic surgery in an attempt to turn back the clock. Last year British men in their forties spent £2 billion on cosmetics and fitness products - from moisturisers to exercise bikes - to help them retain their youth.
Is there more to our behaviour than a simple crisis of confidence? Are middle-aged men simply going through the male equivalent of the female menopause - the andropause - and, if so, could hormone supplements be the answer?
THE CASE FOR THE ANDROPAUSE
Levels of testosterone - the male hormone that influences everything from our strength and aggression to our fertility and sex drive - start to decline at around the time most men enter their midlife crisis.
The decline is very slow and nothing like the dramatic drop in oestrogen levels that occurs in menopausal women, so attempts to compare the two have led to the concept of the male menopause being rubbished by all but a few mavericks. Opinion has changed in the past decade, though, and there is now growing interest in the area, not least because we now know that testosterone levels don't tell the whole story.
Most of the testosterone circulating in a man's blood is rendered inactive because it gets stuck on to a protein called sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), levels of which increase significantly with age. The net result is that, while total testosterone levels fall only slightly with age, the amount available to the body can plummet thanks to the increasing amounts of SHBG.
Despite this, most doctors still don't measure SHBG levels - something vital in men with readings in the lower end of the normal testosterone range.
Low or borderline levels of testosterone are easily boosted by hormone supplements, typically in the form of a patch or gel. Like all forms of medication, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) has its advantages and disadvantages (see below).
There are two main concerns associated with the use of TRT. First, the effect that it has on cholesterol levels - it alters the balance of good to bad cholesterol - and the impact that this may have on future heart disease.
Second, the effect it has on the prostate gland, where it could promote or accelerate cancerous change - which is already a huge problem in older men.
THE CASE AGAINST
Testosterone deficiency may be a convenient explanation for many of the physical and psychological changes seen in middle-aged men, but by medicalising midlife crises, we are in danger of oversimplifying a highly complex phenomenon.
The symptoms of testosterone deficiency (see below) are vague, and most can be caused by a wide range of other problems - particularly the social and emotional upheaval that occurs in men who have reached their peak. Motorbikes, fast cars and personal trainers may boost self-esteem, but their effects are short-lived.
Fortunately, most men realise this and make the necessary emotional adjustments. Testosterone supplements are unlikely to help this process - and may actually make it harder. Then there are safety concerns. It took decades to quantify the risks associated with HRT in women and, by comparison, TRT is still in its infancy.
Falling testosterone levels are not generally related to disease, since they are part of the ageing process. The long-term effects of artificially maintaining them at levels found in younger men remain unknown.
IS THERE AN ALTERNATIVE?
Research suggests that testosterone levels are higher in fit men, and significantly lower in sedentary men with middle-age spread, but it's unclear whether this is cause or effect. Low testosterone levels encourage fat development, and there is little evidence that exercise itself raises the levels.
That said, keeping trim and staying active is more important at this age than at any other time. Alcohol may have an effect, too, since heavy drinking affects hormone levels and can lead to feminisation in men (shrinking testicles, impotence).
Many alternative supplements claim to boost testosterone levels naturally, but I wouldn't touch any of them. Most make little significant difference, and too little is known about those that do.
• This article is taken from the September issue of Sainsbury's Magazine, priced £1.20, available in Sainsbury's stores now.
POTENTIAL BENEFITS
• Revitalised energy levels
• Improved sex drive
• Improved muscle mass and strength
• Stronger bones
• Less irritability and improved mental performance
POTENTIAL RISKS
• Reduced fertility
• Enlarged breasts
• Accelerates enlargement of the prostate - including cancerous growths
• Acne
• Worsens sleep apnoea syndrome (a condition that typically affects men who snore and which can lead to repeated episodes of oxygen starvation during the night)
• Possible link to heart disease
• Aggression
• Loss of sex drive
• Difficulty achieving or maintaining an erection
• Fatigue
• Sweating, particularly at night
• Depression, anxiety and irritability
• Poor concentration and memory
• Lack of drive and enthusiasm
• Weight gain (particularly around the midriff)
• Loss of muscle bulk and weakness
• A decline in athletic performance, including hand-to-eye co-ordination and balance
• Dry skin
• Reduced orgasmic sensation
• Shrinking or softening of testicles


This article:

http://www.scotsman.com/?id=1748282005

Alberto said...

I believe it has to do, at least in part, with the education at home in the early years, I had a very contoling mother that used corporal punishment, spankings. Also the penis size is an important factor, at least I think so, I began my submissive life when I was 25 years old and my wife introduce it without knowing this was going to develope into a life style.

redleg said...

Lady Katherine,

Though I only later came to realize it, I have been submissive towards Women all of my life. I recall even before reaching puberty that when playing tag I always wanted to be "tagged" and captured by the girls. It gave me a feeling of peace somehow, in my then young mind, to be even if only in game under their control. I had no idea what that meant then, I just knew that being captured by them was where I wanted to be. I also recall one neighbor girl who I would feel very beautifully weak to when she would tell me what we were going to do.

As I matured to the point that I actually became sexually interested in Women, I always would fantasize that they were on top. I don't recall how this manifested itself with my girlfriends back in those days, except that early on I loved to massage, please and kiss them upon their beautiful pussies if they allowed it. I would not leave their sides without their permission either.

Once I saw my first pic of a Domme in a girly magazine the image burned into my psyche and I have since always sought to be topped by the Women I have the fortune to meet, even if in so subtle a way that they may not realize it.

I truly believe I was born submissive towards Women. Upbringing may have played a role as it was not good unfortunately, but my genuine submissive feelings towards Women preceeded the ugliness I would unfortunately later experience.

Thank you M'Lady for your interest. I hope that was of some use to you.

Bwec said...

Thank you for your comments men! Your comments have helped me understand the pathology that you have developed by illustrating the abuse by females in your early development. Which is compounded by lack of a father figure and sole female authority figures in school.

There is indeed quite a pattern here and your comments are greatly helpful for those in the psychological community to understand how modern society and Feminist Party doctrine has caused great damage to our society. Thank you again. Men's Rights Activists and the growing Men's Rights Movement are working on what is being called "The Boy Crisis" and other issues caused by the Feminist Party.

Heavy Hitta said...

Hello I am not over 40 and I didn't have a controlling mother.

I have always been sexually submissive. Just like Redleg from a very early age I always wanted girls to bully me, boss me around or capture me.

I always got aroused by it.

I remember when I was very young being read a story about a boy being bullied at school by a girl and I would dream about it. Want it to happen.

I would be cheeky to girls in the hope that they would bully me. I was a small boy and occasionally girls would take the bait and easily bully me. I loved that feeling so much. A mental feeling of belonging with an exiting tingling in my belly and sexual excitement.

I also had my first sexual experiences being wrestled into submission by other boys.

As I grew up I lost interest in guys as they sprouted hair and muscles but that submissive streak wouldn't go away.

I find masculinity a turn off and the irony is I actually find feminine sexuality boring and predictable. Also I always feel I have to hide my submissive sexuality and be like a normal guy so vanilla relationships actually scare me. There is a pressure to conform and perform sexually.

As girls hit puberty they tend to lose that playful bossy, rough and tumble tomboy streak.

As girls developed into women they seemed to lose their edge physically. They lose the ability to assert themselves over guys with their bodies and this is what my heart and mind desires most.

As I got stronger physically the athletic girls became soft and feminine. They started to take on the submissive role around guys. To conform to societies norms, wanting to be pursued and to feel sexy when I wanted to be hunted by them and to feel all sexy and vulnerable. The reality of adult female sexuality and my deeply rooted sexuality didn't match and still don't.

In my adult life I have tried to be a normal guy who can assume the typical male role but it feels awkward and unfullfilling.

I have been on the BDSM scene for years but it is a bit of a cul de sac for me.

It's mostly pro dommes or women looking for a public play sub (no sex) or domestic servant not a sexual loving relationship. Many of the dominant women I have met take vanilla lovers or dominant men as their partners. Sub men are just convenient playthings.

Also I desire a woman who's physical presence overshadows mine, taller and stronger, not fat or out of shape. I like muscle women but they tend to go with even bigger muscle guys and be vanilla to boot.

Most women are not naturally strong and find men that are shorter than them unattractive.

Also I am only submissive sexually and hardly any dominant women want a sub who's submission doesn't go beyond the bedroom.

So I have been on the shelf for most of my life and I'm still looking for that towering athletic amazon with a kinky sexually dominant streak.

I think it must have something to do with my testosterone levels because I am not aggressive in any way shape or form. I was always awful at sports and scared of heights and terrified of fighting.

When other boys were playing football, fighting and climbing trees I was steering clear of confrontations and being quiet.

I'm really interested in the psychology of male submissives but all the literature that concerns us is written by pro Dommes or people involved in the BDSM scene with all it's limiting protocol and rules.

There doesn't seem to be any Independent scientific research written by mental health professionals.

Submissive male sexuality seems to be a totally neglected phenomenon.

Does anyone know of any serious research about the submissive male psyche?

I would like to know why I am like I am and if I can change it because women wont suddenly become athletic dominant and kinky and after nearly 20 years of looking I have not had any luck.

Aria said...

Heavy Hitta - I am a 20 year old in a similar situation, and I would like to say that your words hit home. You did an excellent job describing the conflicted psyche of the submissive male- I couldn't have said it better myself. I also sincerely wish there was more research on the subject, as it is of great personal interest (for obvious reasons).

Gregory Becker said...

45 I'm just discovering this about myself I haven't been there all along. my therapist has helped me understand this much better through guided imagery.
1 thing we cannot be submissive about is educating the women. must be willing to expand understanding that begins with just simply being honest about what we want and need emotionally. I don't believe any of us want to turn someone on just so she can spend her affection on someone else. happiness in being submissive means honest expression of our true desires and the fulfillment there of.
being able to go through guided imagery in therapy with a female therapist has been extremely beneficial to me.
understanding where the desire stem from and embrace without guilt or shame allows me now to see how limited the bdsm world actually it is.
what could be more honest submissive than being honest with yourself.
honest expression the only thing that can lead to fulfillment of pleasure.
My therapist was even bold enough to share her feelings about it.
Through guided imagery she found loving submissiveness to be 1 of the most erotic feelings she has ever experienced.
honesty and vulnerability are extremely sexy.

Gregory Becker said...

45 I'm just discovering this about myself I haven't been there all along. my therapist has helped me understand this much better through guided imagery.
1 thing we cannot be submissive about is educating the women. must be willing to expand understanding that begins with just simply being honest about what we want and need emotionally. I don't believe any of us want to turn someone on just so she can spend her affection on someone else. happiness in being submissive means honest expression of our true desires and the fulfillment there of.
being able to go through guided imagery in therapy with a female therapist has been extremely beneficial to me.
understanding where the desire stem from and embrace without guilt or shame allows me now to see how limited the bdsm world actually it is.
what could be more honest submissive than being honest with yourself.
honest expression the only thing that can lead to fulfillment of pleasure.
My therapist was even bold enough to share her feelings about it.
Through guided imagery she found loving submissiveness to be 1 of the most erotic feelings she has ever experienced.
honesty and vulnerability are extremely sexy.

Tina F said...

Thank you very much all for the comments. I learnt a lot by reading them. I'm a 28 year old female. I have been thinking whole my life that I'm a submissive. Recently, my boyfriend has shown me signs of submissiveness (he likes to be used and abused). I had fantasies of dominating him but I've never told them to him. On the other hand, he was responding great to my desire and fantasies about being beaten and being submissive to him. I'm confused, I think I want to be in both roles. But I'm not sure if that's the case for him. Is it possible for him to be a switch? Or anyone is either submissive or dominant. One more thing, as much as I like that dominant role in the bed, I don't like it outside. I mean I'm not a bossy person at all.

Tina F said...

Thank you very much all for the comments. I learnt a lot by reading them. I'm a 28 year old female. I have been thinking whole my life that I'm a submissive. Recently, my boyfriend has shown me signs of submissiveness (he likes to be used and abused). I had fantasies of dominating him but I've never told them to him. On the other hand, he was responding great to my desire and fantasies about being beaten and being submissive to him. I'm confused, I think I want to be in both roles. But I'm not sure if that's the case for him. Is it possible for him to be a switch? Or anyone is either submissive or dominant. One more thing, as much as I like that dominant role in the bed, I don't like it outside. I mean I'm not a bossy person at all.And I like to cook for the person I love, I even like washing his clothes...

Matt said...

Hey I'm a 32 year old man with a 24 yo girlfriend. She loves being dominated and wants me to user her in any way I want, she calls me Daddy, she gets crazy excited just at the sight of my cock. But as great as that is, I can't help but think about how much I would love a woman to be holding my balls and whispering into my ear that it's she who decides when I will cum, and despite all my power I become her willing servant.

I haven't figured out how to get that to happen yet. Most girls end up submitting to me, but I know how I really want it to end up going. Trying to turn them onto it is slow and is a skill unto itself. And scary. Part of it is that I don't want to feel like I'm the one making it happen, the whole point is that it's someone else's will overcoming your own in a sexual way.

Adam Flatt said...

I'm under 35 and I've been submissive ever since hitting puberty. In Highschool I was a wrestler. I was in the advanced classes as well, but I spent most of my time in the wrestling room brawling with the seniors around my weight. I was somewhat submissive to all of the girls that I was friends with, but that was more of me just being nice than anything else. The one girl I had a crush on for most of high school, but never had the guts to ask her out, I was incredibly submissive towards. All I could think about was making her happy.
I grew up with both of my parents, hetreosexual with my dad working a 100K+ a year job and mom being a stay-at-home mom. I was only bullied in elemantary school, but I didn't realize it then or really care. I didn't care what other people thought of me until I started to have a crush on the girl mentioned above.

Adam Flatt said...
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Adam Flatt said...
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